Consumerism and Church Commitment
Aaron and Leslie discuss their deleted episode and the relationship between consumerism and church commitment. Recorded LIVE on Instagram.
This transcript has only been lightly edited and may contain spelling or grammatical errors.
Aaron
Okay, so we have a lot to cover today, everybody. Let's get started. Okay, Les, this is what happened. Last time we recorded an episode, but then we had to delete the recording of the episode. Do you want to explain the drama that happened behind the scenes?
Leslie
It was only a work between Aaron, you and I. After we had left the LIVE recording a couple weeks ago, I had a really hard time falling asleep. So when that happens, I know something's bothering me. And I had to process what it was. And I think I kind of knew, deep down, that I just probably felt unsure about some of the things that were discussed. Personally, from my end. And I think after sleeping on it, it was confirmed when I woke up that I just didn't feel like it was… my motives were not pure and to edify the viewers. So this is one of the challenges that I learned. It was like a lesson that I learned, and how to be more cautious. Especially because we were going LIVE and I just couldn't pretend… that people would actually be watching this. I think like, normally I rely on the editing feature to take out those things that I wouldn't want published. And I think I didn't feel like everything I said was completely edifying. And I asked you, your opinion, to not post on all the platforms. And then I think you had made the executive decision to just remove it to put me at ease. So yeah, it wasn't a drama. It was more, like learning, a process of learning.
Aaron
I think that's a fair assessment of what happened. And you talked about some of our motives behind the words… that our conversation… the right motives behind what we're talking about and why. And you felt that it was impure, and I appreciate you for sharing that here. And the reason why I think that we should bring it up, or why I think it's good that we bring that up is because we value honesty here. Right? I mean, that's really why we're having these conversations… it’s because we want to be honest with each other. And so if you and me are not being honest with our audience, I think that that doesn't serve the people. Well, I also value, you know… just using words like transparency or authenticity. They are like buzzwords, in a sense, but I think it's true, right? We talked about this the first time we had our little conversation, we're not trying to be performative here. But we are trying to help and love people that watch this. And also, I think it's good for us personally, as creators, as people that publish on the internet, to be real about what's going on. And so Les, I really do thank you for that. I think that was a good move. And I appreciate you for telling me that, too. Publishing on the internet is a hard thing. And it's difficult to go LIVE. And just to, I guess, put yourself on the line, right? I think the rewards are good and great. But the risk is also high, too. And so we need to be very careful that we're not just broadcasting and trying to just make ourselves look good or just trying to create content.
Leslie
Well, one thing, a personal take home for me: Having discernment when it comes to things I feel passionate about. I think in the last LIVE recording with you, I was speaking from a place of more passion and emotion. And I realized that sometimes it can blur the lines from thinking that it's like an actual biblical conviction. It wasn't like… I was addressing it, it was more so like my personal experiences, but it wasn't edifying to the church. It was just my opinions. But since I was logging in through the Walnut Women Instagram, I felt like it was not a representation of what Walnut Women stands for. Now, this is my personal account, and it’s like this is how I want to represent myself. I feel like the stakes aren't as high, you know, like, my personal account, but I think, you know, anytime you're representing something that is bigger, more, a little bit more public… there's some of the cautions, I realized, like for me personally, just to guard and have discernment with.
Aaron
I think the takeaway for me was that as the host, I should be a little bit more in tune about the vibe that we're either creating or the vibe that, you know, I'm getting from you, as the guest, right? I think there were some areas where I was trying to direct the conversation or ask you a little bit more pointed questions to see what was going on. But I think my gut intuition was like, oh, you know, something's a little bit off. I probably should have listened to that voice a little bit more and follow up with you. Good thing that you had enough personal accountability, personal conviction to bring it up to me. And I think once you did that, then I sort of was like, yeah, that's confirming about what, what I felt. So yeah, sorry, Les. I didn't catch that at first go. But I guess we're both learning together, right?
Leslie
Yeah, this process.
Aaron
Well, Les thank you for doing this. You are on your personal account now. But I'm still on FCBC Walnut. So I guess we still have to be real here and represent. But, you know, the whole purpose for me and you getting together at 9:30pm on a Sunday night is to do sermon review, sermon recap. Sermon application, sermon response is what it is. And so, yeah, let's let's do this. Gabe’s sermon today: Generous disciple-makers in a consumer driven age. November 13, 2022. He's preaching from 1 Timothy 6:17-19. Everybody, you can find this sermon and all of our other sermons on our YouTube channel for FCBC Walnut. His main truth: Make disciples by investing your riches into the eternal kingdom in such a way that makes Christ look more precious and valuable than anything here on earth. He gave a couple applications centered around money, which is what we think about when we think about consumerism. But something that me and you texted about, which I thought was really insightful, is that you said how consumerism reveals how committed we are to Christ and His Church. Can you elaborate on that a little bit and why Gabe’s sermon made you think specifically about consumerism and commitment to Christ’s Church?
Leslie
Yeah, it was a really convicting message. I was really blessed by it. And I think that he made a few points about consumerism, and I thought it was kind of like a heart check. He asked some questions like how is this going to benefit me, and I think every time we think that way, e're looking for something that could come from a selfish motive. He also talked about how consumerism offers an escape for us when things become difficult. And he also said that when we have a lot of options, it increases. You know, our preferences and preferences are not always like the best means of making a decision, but because we have so many options, it's become such a normal part of how we make our decisions and choose our commitments. And I think the opposite of consumerism is to be committed to the church. And I think about commitment as something that's really important to the church, the to the local church body, because no matter what… you're taking your ownership of this group of people. You're going to claim it as your own and you're going to love the church, as if the church is your family, your spiritua familyl. And so across, like, any season, or trial, or challenges that the church might go through, you're not going to desert the church and find another church. Like if, if you're committed, you're going to stay and love the church when she's sick, or when she's in glory. And so, I thought that that was a really important way to see what we think about our own church.
Aaron
That was really insightful application that you made now. Les, you've been coming to FCBC Walnut for a really long time. And I think you've been coming in different seasons of your life, too. We touched upon this before in our last real recording that we did, about how you've been here, even when I was in high school, you've been here since I was in high school?
Leslie
When you when you started college, I think.
Aaron
Like really, really young. It's when I was really young. I want to ask you specifically, if there are any seasons that you've had in your life, when it was difficult to stay committed to the local body?
Leslie
I started coming to FCBC Walnut right at the turning point of my college graduation. So I've gone through my entire 20s, and almost my entire 30s now. And I've gone through most of the big life transitions at FCBC Walnut. When I first arrived, we had a lot of turnover with staffing. And we've seen a lot of people come and go. For me, in particular, in my age group, I've seen a lot of people leave as well, for various reasons. And I think that transitions in itself can be a barrier. Because you need all your attention to make these transitions. And I feel like the church has been that stable place for me on Sundays, where I can come back and find refuge under God and with the people of God. And so I feel like one of the transitions, it was definitely a barrier. Young adulthood can be a barrier in itself. You have your full time job, you have a lot of power and options to do things on the weekend. Again, I really go back to the faithfulness of the former generations, that has been tested over time. Our church is like, almost 40 years old, and the people who had planted this church, they were like young adults in their 20s, 30s. There was no way they could be consumers because they were the leaders of the church. And so I think about what they went through while they were raising their kids. Your family was probably one of those original families. I find a lot of encouragement that they did it, and they probably did it with less resources. So you know, when we started to find more, it was a higher cost to make it to church, because at the time we were living in Arcadia. The drive was manageable. But once we started having kids, it was much more difficult. Sorry, if you want to get into any of these, please feel free.
Aaron
You mentioned all these life transitions that you've talked about, and how each transition is difficult. How did you stay committed to FCBC Walnut? What was it that made you say, hey, you know what, even though life is getting a little bit harder, I'm going to stay committed to FCBC Walnut? So I'm going to stay at this church, I'm going to make sure that I show up on Sundays. How did you do that?
Leslie
It was — it is — a process of working out your priorities. The priorities really reveal where your heart is, and what your heart desires. And it's easy to make really busy weekend plans. And those plans are usually a priority. You have to plan them. But I think for Sunday morning service, that is definitely something we want to work up to and prepare for. Because that's the one time of the week where we can physically, presently receive, the spiritual food and experience the corporate worship. Why would we miss out on that? So that that's one thing. And then being raised in a Christian home. I really feel like my parents showed us what that faithfulness looks like. And we literally never missed a Sunday. I don't remember missing church. We were always at church. It's an act of like how you prioritize your time, especially on the weekends. We really try not to exhaust ourselves on Saturday evenings. We make very specific preparations so that we don't run out late on Sunday mornings.
Aaron
You had trials in your life, too. And so I want you to talk specifically about those trials and how, how did you work through that in terms of coming to church?
Leslie
Okay. Well, I think the most recent trial that I personally had to go through was, when I got really ill two years ago. It was right around this time of like, the pandemic. Actually, 2020. And, you know, while the doctors were trying to find a diagnosis for my symptoms, they found something else. They found cancer, really, by God's grace, unrelated to the symptoms I was looking to get treated for. So I felt like I had two separate health journeys. One was the one I was trying to, you know, find answers for, and then there's the cancer part. But by God's grace, I think he allowed for this to happen, so that I can learn how to cherish Christ more. And I think it was almost like giving me the grace to have the spiritual, eternal perspective of what's really valuable. A turning point in my life. I missed two months of church because physically, I wasn't able to make it and it was around the time of my surgery. And now being thyroid-less, without living without a thyroid… it has its own physical challenges, mainly with energy, and just, you know, overall sensitivities with things. It's really hard for my body to adjust to environmental stimulation. So when I came back to church, we were in the parking lot. And I guess it felt like less pressure because you could kind of hide in your car during service, but it made me really miss the church, the corporate body. Worshiping God and my ability to do so was not there either, because I lost my voice for a year. So for like, a whole year, I wasn't able to, like, physically sing and worship. So that was really hard, and made me realize what all these things meant to me.
Aaron
It sounds like what you're saying is that even through your health trials, you still saw the value of the local church. You saw the purpose of what the church is. Is that correct?
Leslie
Oh, I mean, it helped magnify what was actually valuable, and the things that… like people… are eternal. The things that can enter into heaven. And that would be the church. That would be Christ and His glory and His word.
Aaron
What advice do you have for young parents, in terms of prioritizing church and helping your kids see the value of it? Being the leader in your family trying to get them to church? Can you help me with that?
Leslie
Especially when your kids are from the ages like zero to five. Yeah, really, that is like a really hard time for parents. Because, one, they're already adjusting to the transition of having you know, a baby in the family. Babies require full time help. And then when they get to the toddler, preschool age, then you have struggles with the unexpected tantrums, moodiness, disobedience, and just… they can't listen, they can't follow through. I mean, it's challenging. You know, when we go out of the house on Sunday mornings, it's really a really difficult task. And there have been struggles where I get really angry because it confronted my value of being punctual. I don't like being late. It's hard. There's a lot of pressure. And I think that's why we scale back and say, well, what can we do to make Sunday morning transitions easier? It’s to get our full night of sleep, pack our food, and lay out our clothes, so that it is as seamless as possible. On Sunday mornings, and again, it's not like we're the oldest, the eldest of the church, you know. We have generations of parents ahead of us. And I just think that these people have been doing it for decades in bringing their families. And I find a lot of encouragement from that. I find a lot of encouragement when I see other parents there. And I know secretly what they went through. But, you know, nobody knows what it takes. But I think when you see them, you're, you're kinda relieved. We're doing this together. And rain or shine, shoes or no shoes, you’re gonna go to church. And actually, there were times where we were considering whether we should because of some symptoms. Our kids didn't want to miss that routine. I think the kids really thrive on the expected routine that were just Sundays. Is there a value in that routine? Yeah. And I think my encouragement is just that this is the time where it's costly. It's costly. It's costing, like our convenience, it's costing comfort. And I honestly would much rather snuggle in bed with my kids. But when we arrive – that's seriously the only time in place where you get this gift. You don't get it on the weekdays.
Aaron
That's good advice and you're absolutely right. We're not the first ones to have to go through this. I think that's always a good perspective to have. And quick shout out to all the mothers out there, because I know that the mothers carry a very big burden in terms of getting the kids ready and prepared. At least I know Jess does. Have you heard of this thing called the mental load, Les?
Leslie
Oh, I haven't. What is it, a memory thing?
Aaron
It’s just all the things that a mom thinks of in terms of preparing her children for the day. I'm sure that it can go both ways. But, you know, most of the time, I would say it's on the mom. Like what are we gonna eat for lunch? Like what are we going to need to do if we're going to go somewhere after church? You know, that type of stuff. Stuff that runs through the mind in order to be prepared or just anticipate what's going to happen.
Leslie
I thought that was called the Mom Brain.
Aaron
It might be the same thing. Mental load. Mom Brain. I think it's the same stuff. But yeah, Les, thanks for thanks for the tips. I think it's helpful. Anything else you want to talk about in terms of consumerism and prioritizing the church?
Leslie
We covered a lot of it. I thought it was a really convicting message. If anything, when it comes to riches, I see it as God's means of how we can steward resources. And I think our church is really blessed. You look at how everyone readily steps in when there's physical need. I do think we can do more. As a church we definitely have resources for much more.
Aaron
That's a good expectation. Do more, everybody, do more. And, oh, here's something I thought Gabe mentioned: fostering and adoption. And that's always something that I'm ready and willing to talk about… or something I want to be a little bit more ready and willing to talk about.
Leslie
Yeah. With have to talk about where we are in our process of that with you.
Aaron
Yeah, let's get caught up, Les. But yeah, we can save that for next time. I do want to give a shout out to Joce, who asked one of the questions that we used the other time. I did not give her credit, and so I want to give her proper credit for asking us some questions. If anybody has any questions that you want to ask me or Les, you can talk to us in person, you can shoot us a text or an email, and we'll try to talk about it. Hopefully this podcast can be a little bit more interactive than what we normally do. When's the next episode of Walnut Women coming out?
Leslie
Do you remember we don't have internet? That means that that whole ministry has been put on hold for now. I did have several episodes lined up, and we just postponed it until probably the New Year. I'm so sorry, Aaron. Maybe this is God's way of saying I just need to rest.
Aaron
Maybe, yeah, maybe. Well Les, I'm glad that you and I can hop on Instagram LIVE. And this episode will be on our YouTube channel too. So everybody, thanks for joining us LIVE. And yeah, we'll see you next time. Thanks a lot, Les.
Leslie
Thanks, Aaron.
