Discipleship Relationships
Aaron and Leslie start their new podcast series by talking about discipleship relationships.
This transcript has only been lightly edited and may contain spelling or grammatical errors.
Aaron Lee
Me and Les are trying something different today. We are recording, like, maybe weekly, not weekly, but trying to do week to week, not even week to week, just select weeks, where we want to talk about the sermons, the sermon topics, and kind of just give feedback and bounce ideas off each other. I just want to hear Les’ ideas. And so that's what we'll start with today. This is actually Leslie's idea.
Leslie Ho
No, come on Aaron! (laughing) Wait, wait. So am I allowed to ask you any questions today?
Aaron Lee
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you can, but I'm gonna ask you first. This is gonna be fun. So we're just gonna see how this goes. And by the way, for anybody who is listening to this, we will take your questions and topics, if you want us to do that. So you can talk to us in person, or you can email us questions or topics, and we can discuss it here. I'm not telling you that it's going to be a good discussion, but we'll try our best to discuss it.
So today's sermon was doctrinal disciple makers in the church, October 9 2022. Pastor Hanley, speaking from 2 Timothy 3:10-14. And his main truth for today was: Hold fast to Christ by persevering in the pattern of doctrinal disciple making. And so Les, disciplemaking, discipleship relationships, that was the kind of the main thing that came to my mind. I want to ask you, particularly, if you could tell me about some of the discipleship relationships in your life, and what they mean to you.
Leslie Ho
I think that this whole idea of discipleship relationships or doctrinal disciplemaking, it comes, it looks differently from you know, your season of life, and you know, your tasks and your responsibilities at hand. And currently, I am a full time mom. And I feel like my main discipleship opportunities are in the day to day things and duties with raising my kids. And that's my primary disciplemaking platform right now – raising my kids. I have only 18 years with them. And I don't want to miss out on this opportunity. It's a really important responsibility to share my faith and the truth of God's word to my children.
But I think in addition to my own family, I really feel the call to make disciples of all nations. So we live in this population, and we call it what… suburban Christian… and we're surrounded by a lot of people like ourselves, and we have so many hundreds of people in our church, and I feel like being available for the younger generation is something that's truly on my heart, as well as my husband's heart. And so I think a lot of our priorities of how we spend our time is to be available for the younger generation, the needs that they have, and in how it pertains to living life – maybe as a young adults or new parents or even newly married couples. There's always a need for learning God's faithfulness in any relationship transitions. So, I think that we definitely… it's on the forefront of how we invest our time.
Aaron Lee
Have you always thought this way? You said that the younger people in particular, are special to you in terms of you want to, like, you know, disciple them. Have you always thought this way? Maybe you were impacted by people in your life and that's what caused you to feel this way?
Leslie Ho
Oh, well, yes, definitely. Again, you just kind of go with your life transitions. And I have been a huge recipient, and very spiritually enriched, just growing up in the church. And I have those experiences to go back to as far as how, what has really shown me God's faithfulness. And a lot of that, in my earlier years, were those relationships that were formed. And a lot of variances of being able to receive from them is what allows me to see the importance that if I make time for younger generations after me and even children, or youth, it can be used for God's glory. And I may not see the fruit of that or the fullness of it now, but I think it's an important investment. And now that I have kids… I’m not always going to be their favorite person in life. So it's a really important investment for us.
Aaron Lee
Can you tell me how you've seen generational discipleship in your life? Are there any particular older relationships that mean anything to you?
Leslie Ho
I have my, first and foremost, my parents. I grew up in a Christian home, where I think we were pretty much born into the church, which was a different church. And I have my parents example, first and foremost, to rely on. And something that really stands out to me that impacts the way I considered our parenting decisions is that they were just faithful to take us to church every week. And at the time, I think the immigrant church that we were attending relied a lot on programs. And so our entire Sunday was actually spent at the church. And there were programs for all kinds. And that actually really ministered to me when I was a kid, it impacted me. And it led me to the truth that led me to my salvation and my decision to get baptized. And I have my parents to thank for that, you know, they made a priority to take us to church, and the church was a really huge role in leading me to my faith. And I think that that is a blessing, a tremendous blessing that I have.
And within the church, you know, you have access to, like I said, those teachers, those counselors, and some of them were just there, being faithful to serve. And some of them ended up just having a heart for me and taking me under their wing, just spending time with me. And I actually have a distinction that there was no quick access to these people because we didn't have any devices. So it was strictly like time spent together. And, you know, I couldn't drive so they picked me up and we went to the movies, we did crafts together, they took me out and treated me and I it was such a kind thing to do and those things were so meaningful. It gave me an example of how I can do the same for those who are younger and are under my care. And those things are truly meaningful. I think I was talking about that, how you can do a lot of things. You can have a lot of social media followers, but it's really like a true relationship that you can personalize and say you were deeply impacted by your person because you actually saw life together and lived life. And I really resonate with that.
Aaron Lee
Okay, so you said that the church had a lot of programs. I hear a lot of things about how we're anti-program and how programs are a bad thing. So would you say that programs can be a vehicle for discipleship relationships?
Leslie Ho
Of course, I do. I know, I know, our thoughts of relationship building and like, the gospel, is far more important or being Spirit-led is far more important than relying on programs and structures to house our ministry opportunities. But I mean, I think as a kid, as a child, and a youth going to these programs, I was learning service opportunities, I was learning and building skills that I look at now. And I can apply these skills in the current ministries. And I see it more like I was being trained, like, I learned so many skills from my old church, and I compare my experience with someone who didn't have that upbringing. And I think the readiness to just jump in and say, I'm willing to serve the church like it's, I just feel like it's in my DNA now. So I feel like for maybe someone younger, they don't they need training. And I think part of that was I felt like I was equipped to just serve like the local body. So yeah, I thought that that was a fruit from the programs. What the programs did was it gave that consistent access to people who could have been mentors who you had access to build that relationship. Now, if you think about, like, if you just attend service, and you never serve, or you never get to do things side by side, or you're not trained, or practically, like, equipped to do things, how do people learn how to do that? So I think as a child, I do think, for the children's ministry, and the youth ministry, those are really key places where we need a lot of help. We need a lot of examples. We need a lot of people training them to teach them how to do these things.
Aaron Lee
I read an article this week, I can link it. I don't know the exact title, but the gist of it was like, you discern your spiritual gifts in the church. And I think it's, it's sort of like, you don't go out in the world and try to figure out your spiritual gifts. But you serve at church and you do ministry at church, and that's how God will reveal to you what your spiritual giftings are.
Leslie Ho
Yeah, yeah. And you know what, when you have so many opportunities, you try a lot of things and you don't always have to do the things you're good at. You can also share private things that you want to grow in because you see it as a shortcoming. So I think there's no right or wrong when it comes to spiritual gifts, I think God can always use us if we're available and being Spirit-led.
Aaron Lee
I also want to talk about… well, okay, first off, I want to talk about your testimony to begin with, but we can save that for another episode. Because we talked about how your parents brought you to church. And that that did eventually lead to you to being saved. So we can talk about that another time. I also want to talk about you growing up and what that looked like for you. I feel like people would like to hear what that was like and the different areas that you served in and the different things that you did when you were a youth. I'm sure that kind of affects how you minister to young people today, just because of whatever your youth look like when you were there. But we can save that for another one, too. These are just tangents.
Leslie Ho
Yeah, like I said, when I said we were at church all day, we were literally there from 8am, sometimes all the way to 8pm. And I'd say that was probably the height of the revival of that immigrant church. I think it drew families there and families were committed and they were growing together. They were Chinese immigrants. Yeah, and I spent my whole life from like, as early as 3rd grade, all the way to junior high, singing in a choir. That's the place where I learned to sing and learned the harmonies, learned how to read music. We had to do that. And that's what got me into singing. It was just singing in the choir of the church. And that was given to us. I mean, every single week, I was singing in a choir. I also did… they called it like a training program for kids. And that was the time where they integrated like the Bible Drill… is that what it’s called? Bible Drill. Because I was training to memorize scripture, and those experiences, I can go back and say, Wow, praise God that, you know, I had been given. It's not like I was looking for it as a kid. I just happened to be there. And that's what they provided. I think there were ministries where even as young as Junior High High School, they allowed us to serve in the children's ministry as volunteers. And it was such a fruitful spiritual experience for me. And then by the time we went to high school, they were training us to do evangelism and missions work. All the way to college. And that's how I learned about missions. I also remember on certain days, we used fasting as church. But that's really how I learned the heart of fasting and praying that we did it church wide. Can you believe that?
Aaron Lee
Um, yes, I can. I really appreciate it, those experiences. Fasting used to be at least an annual thing, I think, when we were younger. When did our paths cross, Les? I feel that you and me… like, was it like college?
Leslie Ho
I think it was Unikoi. So then you and I were serving in Unikoi. And I was a counselor, and I believe you were like the music leader. You were in charge of the worship.
Aaron Lee
Okay. And so you were you in college? You were post college then?
Leslie Ho
I would say I was a young adult.
Aaron Lee
Okay, well, I have to delve into our history then on this podcast. And this podcast will just be about you and me and just rehashing our history.
Leslie Ho
I have my memories. Aaron, I've been watching you since you were what, 18?
Aaron Lee
Watching me? I mean, that's… (laughing)
Leslie Ho
Yeah, I've had my eye on you. Not in that way. But like, I've known you. I've known, you know, other people who have been around. (laughing)
Aaron Lee
Right. Well, Les, I do want to keep this one moving. But I guess this is sort of related. It's Pastors Appreciation Month, this month. You've talked about the different opportunities that you've had to serve. Are there any pastors that come to your mind through the years that you've served with or that have given service opportunities?
Leslie Ho
I think when I was younger, I don't want to say a new believer… I was like in youth, and I was heavily considering whether or not or the cost of discipleship — whether or not I would be willing to give my entire life to Jesus. So the youth pastor at my church was extremely influential. Him and his now wife, they had kind of taken me under their wings, spent time with me, helped me dig in the word, helped me learn how to pray by myself. Intercession. They took me to conferences and spent a lot of time with me. And because I was a newer believer, it was really necessary, like I needed to learn those spiritual disciplines. I was a spiritual baby. And, of course, as you mature, you gotta like wean off relying on a pastor to lead you. Because you do have the Lord and the Spirit. You know, God gives you those gifts. So yeah, I think that comes with life. Like as you get older, you just can't rely on a pastor anymore to help you meet your way to God. Also the pastor that married Darren and I was very influential, specifically in helping us come together, and counsel us through really, really messy and difficult issues that we were challenged by in our relationship, and helped really prepare us to have a biblical foundation for marriage. And when I consider the way that we now are looked upon, as I guess, people see us as adults, I don't I don't always feel like an adult. (laughing)
Aaron Lee
We’re not even a young adults. We’re straight up adults. (laughing)
Leslie Ho
I do go back and think about how he had counseled us. It was such a gift to be counseled and to be heard, but to receive instruction, on how to work through issues so that we can forgive each other. And I always go back to these relationships. They are the examples to move forward and disciple other believers.
Aaron Lee
Les, it sounds like discipleship relationships have been important in your life. I want to say thanks for sharing them with me here. And yeah, I think this podcast is gonna be fun. We'll find a better way to record these things. And then we're still getting used to finding out a good schedule for us. Thanks for being open to doing this and for bringing it to my attention. Again, if anybody wants to send us your questions, or topics for discussion, just go ahead and talk to us at church or feel free to email us. Thanks Les for the time.
Leslie Ho
Thanks, Aaron.
