Self-Control, Godly Zeal, and Gen Z
Aaron and Leslie discuss the connection between self-control and self-care, what they were zealous for in their youth, and how they are encouraged by the younger generations. Recorded LIVE on Instagram.
This transcript has only been lightly edited and may contain spelling or grammatical errors.
Aaron
Leslie and I have been doing these sermon response podcasts, and this is going to be our third in the series. I’m not sure if it's the last one, but we didn't set an end date. So we'll see how long we keep going. The sermon we're reviewing today is Awakening Godly Zeal in Gen Z. This is by Kevin Quan, November 27. And the passage was Titus 2:1-15. His big idea was that God's grace trains believers to develop a self-control that harnesses zeal and passion towards a life of godliness and good works. All of our sermons are available online, YouTube and Podcasts, just search for FCBC Walnut. This one is already up. Leslie, we have a couple questions. Let's start with the hard one. Where have you found the need to exercise self-control?
Leslie
So I suppose you're asking this question because one of the main points of the message was to be able to teach and exemplify self-control, which helps channel godly zeal and to good works. This is an aspect I have struggled with all my life. I think that self-control means that you have to really prioritize things in the right order, like your needs first. And then you can have fun and enjoy life. So I think, you know, it wasn't until I got really sick that I really started paying attention to, like self-care, just the basic physical food and spiritual food. Those are aspects that are the necessities of life. But you know, I didn't really give a lot of attention to proper self-care. And so I got sick, and then I had to have a strict routine of taking care of myself every day. So I'm just saying those are the basic things that I think about how, as a mom now, routines for my kids are really important because they have no clue how to take care of themselves. And if we don't set those good habits in place, they're probably going to not learn good habits of self-care and what's good for them. So for me, it's really the basics. I've struggled all my life. It's even things like… it took a whole lifetime for me to learn how to… you know how the dentist tells you to floss your teeth? But even the basics to like Bible reading, like I need a lot of discipline to do that. So I actually need a lot of accountability to read my Bible. So I like to join Bible studies where I get to actually do homework and talk about it and what I’m learning. But those are very important disciplines that God wants us to engage in, because they're good for us. So self-control is something that I really struggle with. Another one is when I get emotional, I get out of control. So that's another area.
Aaron
Thanks for being open about all that stuff. I always appreciate your honesty, or you're never scared to be honest with me. I appreciate that. So what I found interesting is that you mentioned self-care. And I don't think that Kevin said self-care. It sounds like you're equating self-care with self-control. Is that what you’re doing? Or is it more like you're pinpointing that self-care can be a type of self-control?
Leslie
There are certain parallels, I think, like, the routines that are really necessary for life. Like we should be eating and sleeping well, we should be taking care of our body so it can function optimally. So I think that if you don't have self-control, it can hinder you. And you know, there's consequences if you neglect self-care, you can become tired, grumpy.
Aaron
I'm really interested in the spiritual aspect of self-care that you're talking about. And to me, it sounds like it's the basic stuff, right? The basic stuff of reading your Bible, maybe praying? Maybe having certain accountability for not just Bible reading, but maybe for different sins, too? Is that what you're saying?
Leslie
Yes, for sure. Self-control is your ability to control your behavior, your decisions, your actions, your speech, your words, even your emotions. And a lot of those things trickle, it reveals, like, the same struggles that we have, you know, so it's, it's a lifelong process. I think that's what Kevin had mentioned. In his second point, he said it takes patience. It is a process of sanctification, and the Lord is really gentle and patient with us. So we ought to be that way towards the younger generation.
Aaron
Yeah. I want to speak to this issue. And Kevin brought it up in the context of youth, and just like scrolling on our phones. But I don't think he really had to say it's just youth. I think it's across the board these days. I think that's something — especially since we're doing this on social media — that we should talk about. And it's the tendency for us to just, you know, be mindlessly scrolling. And what it really is, it’s a lack of self-control. It's wasting, it's not stewarding time, it's not having purpose, purposeful intentionality, with our devices. It's energy that should be directed towards God, or towards loving others, or towards, you know, building our own spiritual muscles, not just mindless entertainment. Now, I think to be fair, there is a sense where it's good to relax. But then you also have to think about, well, how are we relaxing? Is it true resting and Jesus? Is it true refreshment and fellowship with family and friends? Or is it just, you know, straight up just mindless entertainment. So that's something that I appreciate Kevin for saying. And I just wanted to bring up the issue that I don't think it's just youth. I think it's something across the board. And it’s something that we should be talking about, since we're broadcasting.
Leslie
Yes. Yeah. It's very tempting, you know, I mean, everyone's so close to their phones. They can't live a day without it. And that scrolling tendency comes out when we want to veg, we want to take it easy. We want to break from focusing on what's in front of us. I think it's, it's a real temptation for myself included.
Aaron
He was mentioning youth and I do appreciate all the different youth things that Kevin brought into the picture. Les, what were you zealous about in your youth days? When you were younger? What were you passionate about? Did you learn any godly zeal from anyone in particular?
Leslie
Well, like I said, I mentioned last time, too, that I was really blessed to be able to grow up in the church setting and the church essentially discipled me as a believer. And so a lot of that zeal came from imitating the examples that I had. And I think some of the things that my church was really good at was, like I mentioned again, last time, service and good works. And they were really practical and really zealous to serve the community. They even had programs that allowed students to serve alongside them. So we did a lot of things with the Union Rescue Mission. They trained us to learn how to evangelize and share the main points of the gospel. And I remember those things very vividly. Because, you know, when you're young, your youth, you have this hunger to grow. And whatever they're throwing at you, you just take it in. And so I really appreciated being young and youthful, I was being taught these things, and then developed a pattern of learning how to do it and mature into it. So I don't need examples, and then I can start doing it on my own. And another thing that I have a really fond memory of is just that I was praying a lot. There were a lot of prayer warriors and intercessors at my old church, and we prayed a lot. We had a lot of prayer meetings, we fasted on occasions, and I even joined the prayer team that was praying every Sunday before service. And you know, prayer is one of those things. It's a personal fit for me. It's how I like to enjoy God. So I really appreciated that. I don't feel like prayer is necessarily like a vibrant ministry everywhere you go. So I look back on those days, and just think that those are really sweet times for me.
Aaron
Do you feel that prayer is still a priority in your life right now?
Leslie
Oh, yes, I am always down and someone wants to pray. Like someone who loves to study the Word… it's like the equivalent for me, just wanting to pray and be in God's presence. So the answer is yes. And I wish more people loved it and were passionate to do it.
Aaron
The reason why I asked is because I think it's great when you can see the good things that you're zealous about in your youth carry over. I'll give you some examples from my life. When I was younger, I cared more about the way that music sounded. I'm talking about worship music. I'm talking about just the way that it sounds, just the performance aspect of it. And while I do still care about that, it kind of changed over time, where I became more concerned, or more zealous, I guess you could say, about rightful worship. More concerned about the object of worship God, instead of the musical aspect of it. So just like learning more about: what do these lyrics mean? Are we singing the right types of songs? What does biblical worship look like? Can it be modeled in a modern church setting today? That type of stuff. And I think today, I still care about that, too. But now, I guess my attention has shifted less towards music and more towards preaching and teaching, which is kind of a different aspect of serving that I'm doing right now. That's kind of like a “zeal trajectory” for my life. It morphed a little bit, but some of it still stays the same. Sometimes the things of our youth remain with us.
Leslie
Do you think for you it was because of certain models of people that you had seen and been influenced by?
Aaron
I think there's different things. Definitely all the different pastors, counselors, mentors, and worship leaders that I've had in my life. I think evangelicalism as a whole… there were different movements in there too. I'm not sure what it was exactly. I think it was a little bit of all the above. Obviously people played the most part. And then also, I think just, I don't know, maturing as a Christian. Maturing as a person, maybe. Yeah, sometimes God just grows and puts things on your heart, even though you don't necessarily set out to do it. I don't think I ever set out to become a preacher or teacher, which is where I'm currently serving, and I just wanted to play music. But yeah, I find myself doing more preaching and teaching than I am playing music these days.
Leslie
Yeah. Well, Aaron, let me just take this opportunity to encourage you. Like I said, we don't really talk or cross paths very much. I do see your ministries. And I know that you are being faithful to the Lord for his call. And I'm very encouraged by it that you're just being faithful. And I think it's great that you are willing to give things a try. And I see that and I'm encouraged by it.
Aaron
Thanks, Les. I think God takes us in different directions in life. And sometimes we can't plan it, but you just have to trust him and say, Okay, God, I'm gonna follow you wherever you go. And whether it works out or not, you just trust and obey. Right?
Leslie
Yeah. He will get the glory for that.
Aaron
I would say the same thing for you. We've talked about it before, the whole social media ministry, Walnut Women, it's all new territory. So thanks for journeying together with me in social media.
Leslie
Yeah, it's great. People don't know this, bAaron is my go to person to ask cuz he's our social media officer, for everything related to the ministry. So that’s the background voice behind our ministry.
Aaron
Thanks Les, it's a lot of it's a lot of live and learn. And you're doing great. I want to ask you how you see your kids following your example? Do they copy you in terms of what you're zealous about? And then also, how does this translate into the broader church, of the younger generation following the example of the older generation? Do you see parallels? Do you see how family family ministry impacts the bigger church?
Leslie
The short answer is yes. It's not just black and white. I think the life stage of our kids has certain characteristics like, in the very early years, there's very obvious imitations when they start, you know, coming out and following your physical moves. Babies do that. And I think for my relationship with my kids, the one thing that I really wonder about is, how long can I stay connected to them before they start deciding that I'm not cool anymore? You know, can we kind of see the pattern where parents start to, you know, build tension, and there's differences and misunderstandings, and I just wonder, like, where along the path of life does that happen? And is there any way to preserve those connections with our own kids? So this is a really important area for me to stay connected to them. That plays partially into the role for why I desire to homeschool. I just want to maximize my time. And you know, with all this time that we're spending together in the house, we develop our own routines and our pace and our rhythm. And I get to put in or take out things that are important to us, and that we want them to learn. And I think right now, they may not follow our example quite yet, because I think they're still learning. I think the relationship is very much like, we're telling you everything we're giving you commands. And you as a child need to learn obedience and you need to learn how to listen to our voice and follow through. But that's kind of like where we're at. So I don't know how much they're really going to follow in our footsteps later on in life. I don't know the answer to that. I do see some bad examples that come out, in terms of like, our speech patterns, the way we respond to things, our temperament, our word choices. We begin to see those things in their character and actions. And then we were humbled and realized, Oh, we're exposing them to some bad habits. So I think right now, we're still very much in that we're hoping to invest. I think the way this plays out in the church is that you'll see it over time. It takes years to see how your investment, how it will pay off, or what they take from it, and what they want to keep and what they want to reject. And our hope is that when they look back on their childhood, and this time that we have together as a family, they'll remember these routines that we've established and traditions that we try to honor throughout the year, to show the importance of things. Actually, this is something that our Children's Director Katy had mentioned, when I was a new mom She said traditions are important for kids because when they're young, they're not going to remember what you tell them as much as things that you did together as a family. And then when they go back on those memories, then they'll remember what you did them for. But if you just kind of tell them important truths, but there's no action, there's no memories, no traditions, it'll be more easily forgotten. So traditions and routines right now. We're trying to establish those.
Aaron
That's great. If I can just kind of jump on what you are saying… it's not enough just to like… to have… well, I don't know if it's right to say this. The truth needs to exist in the context of church life. You're talking about years of building memories, but also just Sunday after Sunday. And you also mentioned with your kids, it happens in a relational context, which I think is even true in the church. Yes, you can just attend, and you can just kind of observe what's going on. But if you really want to know, and if you really want to know why, and how, or have a personal investment in it, the relational aspect is huge, I think. I think church is supposed to be that relational aspect of it. It's not just like you attend, but it's belonging to the body as a whole and interacting and relating to everybody in that way. Jesus, of course, being the head. I think all those things that you said are great examples of how it works out. Where do you fit in the church right now? We've talked about this before a little bit. You said you're a millennial. Did you reveal your age in another episode?
Leslie
I did not reveal my exact age. I alluded to it. I need to do some homework on this, because I wasn't really informed about the actual living generations. Like the main ones that we have in our church are, you know, the boomers? Yeah. And then right under them are the Gen Xers. And then there's Gen Y, Generation Y, which is the Millennials. And then there's Generation Z, which Kevin talked about. And then the generation after them is like the post-Gen Z. And there's there's older ones, but we don't have that population in our church much. Anyone over 75. I think those are the other generations that we don't have a high number.
Aaron
Elderly fellowship. I think they meet on Thursdays.
Leslie
But in English, we don't have much of that population. Well, first, I wanted to say that this whole idea of generations is a really big, important aspect of, you know, this church, this local church that we get to see and we get to be a part of it. And I absolutely can't stress how important it is that we have, like Boomers and Gen Xers and Millennials and Gen Z's and we have Baby Boomers right now. Because it just reminds us that God is a God of faithfulness from one generation to the next. And it also reminds me of the important duty that each generation has to pass on that baton of faith to the generation behind them. And so there's just a lot. You were at service this past Sunday, and iit was a powerful time, at that prayer time at the end, where we had extra time. And there was just that time of blessing one another from one generation to the next. And those are such beautiful pictures of the God that we worship. And he's not just a god stuck in our time zone. He has exceeded our culture and our characteristics. And it's just a really beautiful picture to see his faithfulness and his truth. So with that said, both Darren and I, we have felt like we are bridge builders, between the boomers and the Gen Xers to the Millennials. And the Gen Z's. But, you know, I don't really… that generation is really foreign to me. Because they're young, I don't have a lot of access to them. And yeah, I am at the very front of the Millennials. That's to answer your question.
Aaron
Yeah, um, okay. So I am glad that you stuck around Les. And I think, your generation, my generation, you know, whatever is in between us, there was a time period where there was… not a lot of people stuck around. And I think right now, it's what we prayed for. It's what we hoped for. And so I'm really happy about that. I mean, obviously, things can change. But I think from the days when you and I were serving together in youth ministry, this is the stuff we hoped for. That there would be a strong younger generation, young families. College-age, people, even. This did not exist. And so I'm really thankful for people like you who stuck around, and then also for the faithful pastors and lay people who served as counselors and everyone else who helped during those times. Where I fit in with the younger generation is I don't. I definitely don't fit in. But I currently preach and teach in youth ministry. And then music-wise, people always come in and out of music. Or I find ways to be in their lives, I guess. What encourages me about Gen Z are are several things. But I guess what's fitting to say here on this platform is that I know that they live online. It's not even living online. It's just a part of life. And so whenever you see talk about God or Christianity or Bible verses on somebody's profile… to me, that's just encouraging, because people don't want to relate to Christianity these days. So just to put it out there, that you have some sort of belief in God or you belong to some sort of church, or even if you would post something about your faith, that's always super encouraging to me. We've had the lettering ministry at our church for a little while. And when people make art, and they post it online, and sometimes it revolves around their faith, or around God's Word, that's always super encouraging to me. Just to see public proclamation of God and the gospel and God’s Word out there. And also, there is still value in coming into church and showing up. This current generation is the generation that lived through the pandemic. They're the ones that went to class online, with Zoom school and everything. And so just the fact that they're willing to come back to church, they're trying to get back into the groove of things. Kevin talked about singing, which, of course, I'm gonna hype, you can't get rid of singing. And so just to see a push for that again, and to try to have some sort of, like, little revival in there is encouraging to me. And I think that's where I've been encouraged by the younger generation is that they care about these things. And they do want to try to reach out to others. That's always encouraging to me. So a bunch of different things. But yeah, I've been encouraged by them. Anything that comes to your mind?
Leslie
Um, you know, with that particular generation, the generation Z, I do agree that they are so… part of their language more than social interactions, are like online interactions. And I think that I don't know if this is an aspect of just being youthful, or if this is a characteristic particular to them. But I do see that they are very bold and courageous, like how you mentioned about their faith. It is a thing now to be posting or to be publicly proclaiming truths or to be associating to Jesus Christ. And I think what's been said in our pulpit is that they are the generation that's… they’re gonna be witnessing to those in their lives. Like when we were in school, we could be hidden, we could have been a Christian and nobody really knew about it, because they didn't care. To be a Christian now, you're automatically a light because you're standing up for truths that are really unpopular. I think that's what encourages me. When I hear that they are zealous to do campus ministries, they want to evangelize to their friends or even bring them to church, those are really encouraging things in such a different time that we live in, that they're facing. For us, we would have considered them hardships that maybe because they're part of that culture, they are there. It's how God is calling them. So I think we may not be able to understand those younger generations, but God is raising up a new generation. I think that's really encouraging.
Aaron
Yeah, that's a great place to end. Thanks for sharing your heart. And I think I can speak for both of us. We're definitely thankful for the generations that have come before us. This is something that I think is really important that you and I talk about, is that we're not the first ones to do this. Faithful men and women, not just pastors, but just church members. And that's part of the big reason why FCBC Walnut is here. And then, of course, our generation and the ones underneath us. What's crazy is that this Gen Z is going to be our kids’ counselors. We got some investment in this.
Leslie
Yeah, we do. This is also why I like learning these technology tools, because this is their language, you know? I wouldn't have ever gotten an Instagram account if I wasn't mindful of the generation behind me.
Aaron
Fun times for sure. Good job. Thanks for doing it. We'll talk soon.
Leslie
Thanks, Aaron.
